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Post by blackcatista on Aug 23, 2023 11:43:34 GMT
I've not been to any other festivals in the last 5 or 6 years, but want to acknowledge that it seems GM is making quicker progress than most on not being centred around white straight men (like me).
The lineup is pretty diverse (look at how male the headliners were even a couple of years ago and how white the overall lineup was until 5 or 6 years back- I don't think we'll see that ever again), the womxn's urinals seem pretty popular and there are clear attempts at shows of LGBTQ+ solidarity/support such as the pride march- GM generally seems a "queerer" place than it used to be. I'm pretty sure the audience is more female than it used to be, too?
Any thoughts on further steps? Examples from elsewhere?
GM is very middle class but that's a hard one to crack while tickets cost money.
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Post by synthpopeye on Aug 23, 2023 13:49:41 GMT
I just go to Green Man to watch bands and eat macaroni and cheese lol.
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fran
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Post by fran on Aug 23, 2023 16:03:46 GMT
Yeah, it's part of what I like about Green Man - that it feels like they're making an effort to continue progressing. Things like the women's urinals (with the very clear NB and trans-inclusive signage), the pride march, it all helps.
I'm not sure the actual statistics on this, but I'm pretty sure the stewards are majority female as well? At least the shifts I worked were mostly alongside other women. Not sure if that's much different to other festivals, but I could imagine in some places I'd feel less safe working a stewarding shift (as a woman on my own) than I ever would at Green Man.
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Post by rayrad on Aug 23, 2023 16:38:30 GMT
the queer / binary / trans percentage of the crowd has shot up in recent years
and it unquestionably makes GM a better place
i wish it wasn't still so overwhelmingly white
but that's (very) slowly improving too, i think
certainly on-stage if not as speedily off
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Post by mookid94 on Aug 24, 2023 7:58:15 GMT
They did achieve their 50:50 gender split pledge this year with over 50% of the line up being female or non-binary (according to the programme).
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moz
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Post by moz on Aug 24, 2023 12:24:23 GMT
They did achieve their 50:50 gender split pledge this year with over 50% of the line up being female or non-binary (according to the programme). Didn't even notice. Which is a good thing, I think. It shouldn't even be an issue to have an equal festival card. To some, it is. Good acts are good acts, innit. |
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Post by rayrad on Aug 24, 2023 12:32:03 GMT
They did achieve their 50:50 gender split pledge this year with over 50% of the line up being female or non-binary (according to the programme). Didn't even notice. Which is a good thing, I think. It shouldn't even be an issue to have an equal festival card. To some, it is. Good acts are good acts, innit. in theory - and i complete agree with the principle - we just want the good stuff! but sometimes, in order to get the good stuff, you need an element of positive discrimination to redress the years of conscious and unconscious bias towards male / male-fronted acts not to mention straight / cis / white acts! anyway, yeah, you're right - the fact that you didn't notice is great it means that GM is getting it right! |
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moz
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Post by moz on Aug 24, 2023 19:48:44 GMT
Didn't even notice. Which is a good thing, I think. It shouldn't even be an issue to have an equal festival card. To some, it is. Good acts are good acts, innit. in theory - and i complete agree with the principle - we just want the good stuff! but sometimes, in order to get the good stuff, you need an element of positive discrimination to redress the years of conscious and unconscious bias towards male / male-fronted acts not to mention straight / cis / white acts! anyway, yeah, you're right - the fact that you didn't notice is great it means that GM is getting it right! Oh yeah! I completely agree. It's a sad state of affairs. But the only way to normalise equality on a festival bill is to make it much more common. And, in some places, that will obviously mean 'positive discrimination'. I was only mentioning that I didn't even notice this in regards that....it didn't even register. It's OBVIOUSLY laudible that GM has the courage to do this. Even using the word 'courage' seems a cop out. As....it SHOULDN'T be courageous to book a kick ass bill whatever their sex/race/orientation/sexual pecadillos etc etc. Im rambling. I do that. Yay GM. This they are doing right. Now.....about the state of the stinky toilets.... |
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Post by berthasdad on Aug 25, 2023 15:52:57 GMT
"Smashing the Patriarchy' etc" you say.
How little critical thinking there is around this. Everyone's desperate to be seen to be inclusive and kind and progressive; it's mandatory now.
But is it desirable?
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Post by rayrad on Aug 25, 2023 16:00:36 GMT
"Smashing the Patriarchy' etc" you say. How little critical thinking there is around this. Everyone's desperate to be seen to be inclusive and kind and progressive; it's mandatory now. But is it desirable? why would it not be? |
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Post by berthasdad on Aug 25, 2023 16:17:16 GMT
Ask the parent of an awkward, uncomfortable teen (weren't we all), encouraged to believe they are 'in the wrong body' (by cool tiktok influencers or progressive teachers) and that changing gender will change their lives. Or a lesbian pilloried for not accepting dick.
Women are oppressed on the basis of their sex. Expanding the definition of woman to include those born male doesn't do a right lot to 'smash the patriarchy'.
I don't expect this to be popular. BUT concern over gender ideology is not restricted to Daily Mail readers or 'the right'....
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Post by rayrad on Aug 25, 2023 17:10:23 GMT
you're obviously having a very personal experience - with which i can only sympathise - and, of course, cannot possibly begin to genuinely understand
but an over-correction is the first stage of any recorrection
that's not much solace for those caught up in the wave
but your no doubt deeply difficult situation doesn't negate the necessity to dramatically improve things for trans and non-binary people
and the TERF ideology that trans rights somehow threaten (necesarrily hard won) women's rights does nobody any favours
anyway - we won't end up agreeing on this. but i do hope things work out for you and your child
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Post by berthasdad on Aug 25, 2023 17:35:02 GMT
What is a non-binary person? A genuine question. Are there 'non-binary people' in places where they don't have the luxury of 'identifying' that way? Fwiw I'm not going through a personal experience of this; but am profoundly disturbed by what you call the 'over-correction'. Expanding the definition of 'woman' to include those born male, and potentially extending women's existing rights and protections to anyone who chooses to self-identify as 'a woman' certainly does threaten those rights and protections. That's not ideology, it's fact. As I said; nowhere near enough critical thinking on show atm, in part because too much of the serious downside (in particular for women and vulnerable young people) is being ignored, airbrushed out or flat denied. I don't want to fall out with you, but you're absolutely right; we won't end up agreeing. I was triggered by the 'smash patriarchy etc' headline and comment, which I think typifies the lack of understanding or engagement with something serious enough to merit it. So, back to banging on about music? onthewomanquestion.com/2023/06/16/the-trans-ideology-movement-global-capitalism-and-the-colonisation-of-women/ |
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Post by rayrad on Aug 25, 2023 21:22:06 GMT
oh right, misread your original post
in which case... ffs mate...
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Post by berthasdad on Aug 26, 2023 5:10:36 GMT
and....there we have it. The absence of critical thinking writ large. "ffs mate..."
Queer theory and belief in gender ideology are unquestionably good things. Any dissent or suggestion otherwise is unquestionably not.
Right? Mate?
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Post by ross10 on Aug 26, 2023 8:22:02 GMT
I just go to Green Man to watch bands and eat macaroni and cheese lol. The price of that particular stand though eh… |
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Post by ross10 on Aug 26, 2023 8:29:06 GMT
They did achieve their 50:50 gender split pledge this year with over 50% of the line up being female or non-binary (according to the programme). This is probably very ignorant, but how do they calculate it? Is there an accepted approach? Is it any band with a female or non binary person in? Or does it have to be majority female or non binary, or fronted by? Or is it just adding up all the band members. I think this matters because festivals are going to be making this statement more and more. |
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Post by rayrad on Aug 26, 2023 11:14:00 GMT
and....there we have it. The absence of critical thinking writ large. "ffs mate..." Queer theory and belief in gender ideology are unquestionably good things. Any dissent or suggestion otherwise is unquestionably not. Right? Mate? writ quite small really - i don't even use capital letters |
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Post by wakestock on Aug 26, 2023 13:03:08 GMT
I think it’s great that Green Man manages something approaching a 50/50 gender split but without it being overly contrived. It feels more organic, like they just recognise the fact there are so many fantastic female artists around. Difficult to do that precisely though, as I don’t really know how a female act is defined when it comes to bands. 3/4 of Amyl and the Sniffers are male, but the one that really matters is female (not to downplay the other’s contribution!). Same with Mandy, Indiana. They’ve made huge strides in having a broader mix of ethnicity too, with the African bands of last few years really adding to the mix. It was embarrassingly white 15 years ago.
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fran
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Post by fran on Aug 26, 2023 18:45:45 GMT
Really disappointed to see the comments above about 'concerns' over 'gender ideology'
Why not just let trans people live their lives in peace eh
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